What dying teaches us about living | Success Redefined

Imagine growing up speaking perfect Swedish, and then being uprooted at age four to Brazil — where you were completely convinced everyone around you was simply speaking the wrong language, and made it your mission to teach your grandmother how to count correctly. That same spirit — of following what feels true even when the world says otherwise — led her from medicine to opera stages in Berlin and Italy, back to medicine again, and now to something she never expected: the psychology of dying, and what it teaches us about how to actually live.

My guest today is Ulrika Torquato - the creator of the Joyering® app, and with a background in medicine, opera, and the arts, she explores how small moments can reveal what truly matters and shape how we move through life.

https://joyering.com/

This link takes you to Joyering®, a free app created by Ulrika Torquato that helps us notice moments of joy already present in our daily lives. Access is simple, and your email is only used to log in.

~~~ 

MS BELLA ST JOHN

✨ AI Literacy and Mindset Strategist | Professional Artist

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https://bellastjohn.com/coaching/

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https://bellastjohninternational.com/aienablement/

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~~~ Success Redefined ~~~

PS:  No animals were harmed in the creation of this video.  Made with recycled data. 🌼 

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:22

Getting everything. You're my first of back to back to backs today. And so it's just like go away. Further away. Let me hit record before I hit it. Well, I still remember. There we go. It was years ago, and I was I was doing podcast interviews, and I I had back to back on a whole day, and all day I forgot to press record. No. All day. Like one after the next after the next. And what was but it was one of those fortuitous things as well because none of them just felt right. And each one of them was so gracious. And we did redo's that just knocked it out of the park. So it was it was meant to be, but it was just one of those you really just have that sinking feeling throughout the day that you've you've forgotten something. Like, is there something on the stone?

SPEAKER_00 1:19

Okay. And then yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:22

And then you go, oh dear. Oh dear. Okay. So the way that we'll do this is I'll pre-record the intro so we don't have to sit here and go, and she did this, and she did this, and she did something. And then I basically, yeah, just say, and you know, and we'll so let's go join the conversation. That's sort of a thing as a segue. So we'll we'll pick up as though, just as though we're basically part way up through our conversation. Yeah. And just sort of take it from there. So any questions before we kick off? No, I think it's and just and just checking. So the pronunciation of your your first name is Ulrika Ulrika? Ulrika, it's good, yes. So what is it supposed to be?

SPEAKER_00 2:07

Ulrika. It's wonderful. It's illiterate.

SPEAKER_01 2:10

And so where so I I'll ask I'll I'll ask these questions when we get into the into the conversation. Okay. All right. Okay. So and this is just my signal to myself when I'm editing, so I know where we've gone, blah, blah, blah. And now we're about to dive into the podcast. Okay. And so, Ulrika, I'm fascinated by, well, first of all, by your name. Where did you grow up? What's the origin?

SPEAKER_00 2:36

Well, my name, Ulrika, it's very Swedish. I'm born in Sweden. My mother is Swedish, my father Brazilian. And I grew up in Brazil. So I have this two main things in my life as.

SPEAKER_01 2:53

So what led to the to the move first of all, then from Sweden to Brazil? How old were you? What was that for your mother or your father's career, or what was happening?

SPEAKER_00 3:03

Well, my father was in Sweden. He was uh learning his he studied psych psychology, and then he wanted to move back to Brazil because he was missing his friends and and family. And I was almost four, my sister was 10 months, and my mother very courageous. And we moved the whole family to Brazil. And then yes, yes, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:36

So so were you old enough to understand the difference in culture with your just your your friends, or because you weren't yet at school at that age?

SPEAKER_00 3:46

Yes, I was I could already speak very, very well Swedish, and I had my Swedish friends. I went to kindergarten, and so I I had already this Swedish culture deep down in me with uh with my uh grandparents too. So uh this move was not so easy because when I come to Brazil, people were talking another language, and I I thought it was completely wrong. It was the wrong language. So my mother tells always I I was trying to teach my grandmother from the my father's side how to tell um how to count in Swedish because I learned it it was the right uh way to do it. Yeah, so it was not so easy, even if everybody says, Oh, children they don't have problems, but I think um deep down it's not so um so easy now.

SPEAKER_01 4:53

And so what branch of psychology was your father in? Because I would think that that would be fascinating as a psychologist to see the differences in in their own child and going, no, I'm sorry, numbers are like one, two, three, four, or hein, spider. Yeah, like no, you're you're wrong. I would I would have thought that would be fascinating for a psychologist.

SPEAKER_00 5:17

Yes, I I think that too. Yes. Um yeah, I know he in the beginning he was also uh teaching small children in at school, so I think he had uh um something to say about it, but uh then he left the profession. He was not uh he he never worked as a psychologist in Brazil, so we didn't talk so much about it, but um yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:48

Interesting. Yeah, and so so when you were growing up, and this is a question that I pose to most of my my guests, because we're talking about success redefined, because so many people for the last six years, and you can count back to the pivotal year to which I refer, for the last six years, people have been completely redefining what they consider success. But so when you were growing up and you were seeing these two two different cultures and you were seeing your parents interact in different ways and with different professions, what did you think success would be like for you when you grew up? Like what did you want to grow up and be?

SPEAKER_00 6:23

Well, I had so many thoughts about it. I had many passions, so many things I loved. I loved singing, painting, um, psychology, um, physics. But I thought it was so important to be of use and really responsible, so I opted to study medicine. But it was not from my heart. I think I know it was more like I wanted to be the good girl and okay, do the right thing. So I went for medicine. Um now I'm happy I did it, but at the time I was not so so really how I can say it engaged in this because I felt that oh, I wanted to sing, I want to do other things. So I studied all the years I I had to I had two, and then I practiced, I uh worked too, but I wanted to sing. So I have I began taking singing lessons and participating in choirs and yes, and studying music. So and that was around what age? Um, well, I took my degree when I was uh 23.

SPEAKER_01 7:47

So and so move forward to now with the life that you have now, which we'll get into in a second. But how has your your view of what success is changed over the years, if it if it has at all?

SPEAKER_00 8:03

Yes, it has because I then I left medicine, I moved back to Europe, I moved to Sweden at first to study music. So I had then this idea, no, I want to sing, I want to be an opera singer. So I studied also in Berlin, and there I was also at the university, I was studying, making many many operas, small, smaller things, but then I wanted to to continue my studies. I uh moved to Italy. Um so I I had this idea, wow, I I will really sing. But it was not so easy as as I thought. It was it was hard on my voice. Um, I think I was I had this idea of success. Oh, I need to to make a big career of it, and I really, because I have left also my the medicine career, then I have to be a successful opera singer. But with time, I it was like, no, that's not success anyway. I cannot success is to be to be happy, to live, really to have this feeling that oh, I'm alive and and see everything that's around me. That's it's success for me now. So yeah, it changed it so much.

SPEAKER_01 9:33

So, what does your life now look like, both your personal life, and then we'll get into more of your business life and segue into that?

SPEAKER_00 9:42

Yes, my life. Well, I live in Switzerland on the mountains, so it's very in the middle of the nature. I uh hearing birds and uh looking at the flowers, like very highly. Oh wow, it's so great. And um, so I live with my husband, and we yes it's quite good. Um but what is interesting is that I'm coming back to medicine. It's it's very very strange. It's like um I'm now I I decided for not so long time ago that I wanted to study uh the psychology of uh palliative care because this was something that is really interesting for me. So I found this course now. Um I'm doing it online, and it's very, very, very good. Um so yes, let's see, because I think it has so much to do with um with our time too. It's I'm getting older, my friends too, and it's like life is something that we should not miss. So studying palliative care is like what what can we really do? What can I really tell patients uh and and friends and family and to myself now?

SPEAKER_01 11:12

Yeah. I mean, and and I so feel that I I turned 60 this year, and you go, okay, well, all right, so yes, by by definition, I don't figure I'm living to 120. So more of my life is behind me than ahead of me. And then you also start seeing people on on videos or TV shows or movies or whatever, and you're seeing them now, and you're going, wow, they're looking old. And then you're looking in the mirror and going, hmm, okay, yes, time is passing. And it's not you know, the old adage, it's not a dress rehearsal. But as the years go, you realize that more and more. And at this moment, for every single person listening to this or watching this, if it's on YouTube, this right now, in this very moment, as you are listening to this, is the youngest that you will ever be.

unknown 12:02

Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_01 12:03

Right this very moment, leaving aside all the studies into the telomeres and the this and the yeah, well, just leave that out of this conversation. This very moment, you're the youngest you will ever be. Take advantage of it.

unknown 12:16

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 12:17

And so with the the work, I'm so I'm fascinated by this. With the work that you're looking into with the psychology in palliative care, what have been some of your, and I know that's fairly recent, but what have been some of your aha moments so far?

SPEAKER_00 12:32

Oh my I think my biggest aha moment is really that when you are dying, you are more um aware of living. Yes. Yeah, because we have this tendency when we have this thought of future ahead of us, because we never know, but we think, oh, then we we we don't think about living, we think that we are going to live really when something happens or when we reach uh something. But if you get sick or if you are at the end of your days, you are my like, wow, life is really something that's happening for to me now, and it's not going to be there forever. And that's it's amazing.

SPEAKER_01 13:29

Yeah, and and it it is interesting as well. I've I've been at that point a couple of times in my life and have some some fairly fairly significant challenges, health and mobility now. And it does change your outlook. But and for me, it was it was not outlook of the rest of whatever time I have here. It was an outlook on the moments. Like I remember being in Florence, for instance, and and walking along the the streets and thinking if I look up or I look down, so not at the shops beside me, if I look up or I look down, I'm looking at the same general sights that Da Vinci saw.

unknown 14:10

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 14:11

And and it's it's like, but people don't, and they walk along with their phone and they're you know, and and it's like, oh, people just stop and pay attention to the little things around you. You won't get another shot at this very moment in life. And I oh, I so wish more people could could almost like if they could experience what it's like to almost not come back again and and have that awakening. And I think from the people with whom I've I've had experience that are at that end-of-life phase, it's it's it's just fascinating how it's a completely different mind shift with regard to what is life, what is happiness, what is success.

SPEAKER_00 15:05

Yes, yes, and the success, I think it's like noticing what's really happening now. That's success. It's like, wow, uh, we take for guaranteed everything. It's like, oh, the birds are singing, yeah, it's not important. No, that's all there is. It's like wow, take it in. It's it's and we run away with our cameras and everything we have. It's always like we take a picture and then okay, I I've noticed it. It's uh I it's done. No, take the feeling of everything that's happening in. Oh, there, there uh you can get an awakening even if you're not dying. It's like in the middle of your life. If you really take it in, you'll see you, you will change it.

SPEAKER_01 15:58

Yes. I'm baffled by when you see the images at the Louvre with the people there looking at the Mona Lisa, they're all standing up with their phones. Taking, I mean, you can get a better photograph online, people. You know, like like there's there's nobody just and admittedly, I know you you don't get a lot of time in front of in front of a lot of the the considered more important paintings, but pay attention. I remember the very first gallery I ever went to, it was a Salvador Dali exhibition. And I and I was only very young, I think I must have been like 10 or 12 or something. And for me, you know, art was yeah, this thing, and you get paints and you do whatever. Until I was there in front of these works, and I was just captivated by the brush strokes and by the ways paint merged in different areas, and yeah, like pay attention to whatever is of interest for you. And so, with what you're doing now, darling, what are some what are some of the things that you can give as tips and suggestions to people?

SPEAKER_00 17:06

Well, I think the most important thing that what I discovered, like um, we have already so many good things in our lives that we are not seeing. We are just moving fast by them. And now I'm not talking only about the birds, I'm talking also about the coffee, the food we are eating, the paycheck, everything. The old all things are happening to us the whole day. Uh piece of music, uh a conversation with a friend, um, something lovely. Wow. It's not it's not like it doesn't count just because we uh done it yesterday or and we are sure we are going to have it tomorrow too. No, it's not. And um what I really wanted to do to get everyone um is to feel the good that already is present in their lives, in our lives, because it is, it is and in in each time during the day, uh you in each moment you can stay and think it is something good now in this moment around me or that I'm doing or that's happening. And it is always if we look, if we look well. Maybe it's not what you planned to see, but there is something that can be um a beautiful color, it can be uh a smell. It's always something.

SPEAKER_01 18:49

Yeah. And it's so easy to be to be sucked into the the vortice uh vortices of you know the doom and gloom and the you know, I was I was watching a it's a podcast that I often often watch simply because the the it's it's a young podcaster and he's he's very he's lovely and and he makes me laugh and so I often watch his podcast. But he was showing a clip of a of a person who had a hamburger that they purchased in 1999, and they have the receipt and they still have it, and it's from a particular fast food chain that shall remain nameless, and the only thing that has disintegrated is the pickle. Oh, the rest of it looks like you could just put it in the microwave, eat it up, and eat it now. And there are so many of those around, and that's not the only one that I've had friends say. Have you seen this? It's like I don't want to. It's so easy to get pulled into all of that. Yes, it's more of a challenge to stay present and focus on all of those little things.

SPEAKER_00 20:00

Yes, and I think with this mobile scrolling that we're always looking at other people's lives and what they are doing, and so we we don't take take the time to look at our lives really now, not ahead, but now we don't have the time. It's yeah, and we we we have to do it, I think, because it's it's a shame to to miss life, because life has so many good things too.

SPEAKER_01 20:31

Yes, and start living your own life. It's one thing to live vicariously through somebody else. If you need a break, if you want to take a you know, a a you know, a decation from your own life for a little bit, but start living your own life. I took several years where I I knew that I I with the challenges that I had uh with my body, I'd only be able to travel solo by myself for so long. So I took several years and actually was a full-time tourist through Europe and the UK. And oh, I'd I'd spend six months in one place and three months in another and three months in another. And it was wonderful. And and I blogged about that as I as I went, but more just for sharing with family and friends. And but I started attracting people who were living vicariously through my adventures. And when I'd stopped that life, because I've now set settled down in in Europe, and when I stopped that life, I actually had one woman who sent me an email that that I had to read two or three times just to sort of go, okay. And she was essentially well, it these were my words over the top of hers, but she was essentially saying, I was living vicariously through your life, and now you've stopped living your life. What am I supposed to do now?

SPEAKER_02 21:42

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 21:42

And I had to speak with that for two or three days before I could respond from a heart centered, encouraging place, not one of, oh, please, wouldn't you just stop and look around you? Yeah. So it's it's an interesting, it's an interesting. World. Alright, so the last thing that you'd like to leave with with our guest, Sterling, would be what?

SPEAKER_00 22:07

Um don't wait to have the perfect life to start living your life. That's very important because now when you tell about um oh, you think that your perfect life maybe will be when you can travel and stay in different places. No, your your life it's not that now. Now your life is some maybe something else. Maybe there are many things they are not good, but they are still think they are good. And take a look at that. They are there. Yeah, I love that.

SPEAKER_01 22:41

Thank you, my darling. Well, we need to leave it there. So uh I'm Bella St. John. This is Success Redefined, and until next time, catch you later. Bye.

unknown 22:51

Bye.

SPEAKER_01 22:54

And we're out. Thank you, my darling. Thank you. That was wonderful. So you're happy? You're good?

SPEAKER_00 23:01

Yes, yes, yeah. I am. I am.

unknown 23:03

Excellent.

SPEAKER_01 23:04

Okay, so I'll let you know when I upload this, etc. Um, and do you do you have a YouTube channel that I can uh yeah, I'm not using uh YouTube for this kind of thing.

SPEAKER_00 23:16

Yeah, that that's okay. Yeah, yes, I have, but it's for my my singing.

SPEAKER_01 23:21

If you want to hear me sing, just actually so so once upon a time in in my career, I did actually make a living as a singer, but for a very short period of time. I just wanted to see if it was what I wanted to do, and it wasn't.

unknown 23:36

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 23:38

Yeah, so so yeah, I I I I had a small, small group and uh it was more jazz focused, but yeah, I'd done some some light opera stuff when I was really young, but not not significantly trained. So yeah, so no, but the reason I was just asking about the YouTube thing was just I like to make sure that I always include a subscribe link for my guests if they have one.

SPEAKER_00 23:58

Yeah, yeah, that yeah. Now I I'm still uh it's there there are so many things when I begin so a business about this, so I cannot do everything. But I just wanted to tell you that I look at uh looked at your uh website. So I was so impressed with everything that you've done and your painting too, me too. I also uh like fine art, I do too. So I saw I saw so many things that were so common. I oh, I want to be on her podcast. So thank you. I decided that I want because I saw that we have all these things in common, so I was really happy.

SPEAKER_01 24:38

Um I I love I love and so what I found as well is with all of the people that I've interviewed, I've only had two where I haven't felt a just like the heart connect to. And so as soon as I saw your you just appear on, it was like, oh, another new friend. Okay, this is me.

SPEAKER_00 25:00

Yeah, I had also this feeling uh that well, she's very, very interesting. Very good.

SPEAKER_01 25:08

You're really just down the road because I'm in Prague.

SPEAKER_00 25:11

Okay, wow, yeah, it's not far away. Maybe uh because my husband and me, we are planning to to go to Prague to for a weekend or something.

SPEAKER_01 25:21

Um I can give you uh Yes, absolutely. Well, actually, so I've got so after after summer, because I I have a challenge um physically with heat, and so basic base, and I I well, I've only just moved here, I'm still surrounded by boxes. I've only been here about what five, six weeks or so. Yeah. And so so um, but uh after summer, so I my birthday's in September, and so I basically decided once uh summer is over, from then until the end of the year, I'm just calling my birthday, that whole that whole block for the rest of the year, and I've got friends flying over from the states and coming in from the UK and everything, just at different times, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:04

So so wonderful, yeah. But I think that uh uh uh because I have already been a couple of times to Prague, and I think that's a place that in autumn is the perfect time, it's like it's gorgeous.

SPEAKER_01 26:19

Well, so since you've been here, you'll know where my apartment is. So you know where the Charles Bridge is. Yes, yes, and you you come along the the river and you know where the Fred and Ginger building is, the dancing building, the two two buildings that ah oh it was for a long time.

SPEAKER_00 26:39

Uh the last time was for twenty years ago, so I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 26:45

That's okay, so not not on the castle side, on the other side.

SPEAKER_00 26:48

Yes, okay, yeah. Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_01 26:50

And so if I'm on that side and I'm facing the Charles Bridge, yes, to your left, you go one bridge over, and then you've actually got the Joffin Palace right on the river. Yes, that's my view out of my window.

SPEAKER_00 27:04

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 27:07

I love it, I absolutely love it. It's it this part of Prague's actually uh um now UNESCO World Park. Okay, it's been designated, and and so and I've got 12-foot ceilings, and oh I I just I I love it, I really, really do. So, and and as of last week, I now have curtains, which is good. But it's been one of those where I I don't want to just rush in and just go, and we'll have one of them and one of them and one of them and one of them. I I want to nest. Okay. Because this will be the last place I live. Okay. This is home. I I I love it here with a passion. That's so different. Yeah. Yeah. And what's also interesting is that even though I have uh uh you know, like the main drag along the riverfront in front of me, and where I'm physically sitting here, there's a wall, and then you know, uh downstairs is is the road and then the Joffin Palace and the the river. And so you can you can hear the cable cars when they go past, when they go just a ding-ding-ding, you know, which I actually kind of like, you know. But in my my bedroom's at the other side of the building, and the only thing I hear in the morning is the birds wake me up about four o'clock or so, and I go, Oh, that's so sweet. And then I just go back to sleep again. It's as quiet as anything because it opens out onto a private courtyard downstairs. Okay, it's perfect. Yeah, it's perfect, it's magical. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, so yeah, so I think between us we each have the best of all worlds.

SPEAKER_00 28:48

Yes, yes, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:50

You have right, we have to stay in touch.

SPEAKER_00 28:54

Yes, I think so. Yes, done. Yes, done.

SPEAKER_01 28:57

All right, I'm I'm going to scoot so I can be on time for my for my next. Let me know if you need anything at all. Okay and I'll let you know when this goes live. But yeah, we have to stay in touch anyway, aside aside from that.

SPEAKER_00 29:10

Done. Yes. All right, Signus.

SPEAKER_01 29:12

Nice. Bye, darling. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 29:14

Bye. Bye, sweetie.